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OTHER EPISODES:

S2 E26 Why I Hate Goals and What You Should Try Instead of Goal Setting

S2 E25 How AI Can Help Your Creative Business Grow with Lauren deVane

S2 E24 Life’s Initiations and Transitions and How They Help You Serve Your Clients

S2 E6 Mindset Shifts and Simple Strategy to Build Your Business Your Way with Ben Easter

Are you looking for ways to grow your business but you currently feel stuck on the “how”? Do you want more freedom in your business and life? This episode with Ben Easter is packed with inspiring stories and tangible takeaways that give you clear direction on the next steps to take to grow your business and live in alignment.


Ben Easter, Founder and Head Coach at Lucid Shift Coaching, joins us in this exciting episode. He shares his journey to becoming a coach and going through several businesses that ultimately didn't feel right for him. Ben also talks about mindset work and its importance when it comes to success, business or otherwise.


This episode will help you get anchored in what your definition of success is and how to move forward with that at the forefront so you can build your business from an authentic and fulfilled place.


👂 Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:

  1. Learn the power of market research calls.

  2. Understand why you procrastinate and how to stop doing it.

  3. What mindset shifts and strategies you can implement in your business to reduce overwhelm and create forward momentum.

📘 Resources

🎧 Episode Highlights

[05:50] What Freedom Means to Ben

  • Ben believes freedom and authenticity are closely linked. For him, people have the ability to be themselves when they’re free.

  • Financial freedom has the same meaning for him. It means having the finances that allow you to show up and be your true self.

  • Ben also thinks freedom means being able to do what you want to do and create the systems you want to create.

  • Lastly, he believes people often don’t show up as their authentic selves because they’re afraid of how others will respond.

[06:45] Ben: “Finding freedom is about finding yourself and being you.”

[13:07] Ben’s Journey to Becoming a Coach

  • Ben’s journey to becoming a coach started with a golf scholarship at 15.

  • Around that time, he learned about visualization, which he used for golf. He thinks of visualization as something like magic.

  • When he got to college, he realized he didn’t want to pretend anymore. Then, he sustained a head injury and lost his social skills, which he had to redevelop.

  • That was an impactful experience for Ben because he felt like he was broken. He didn't do well in jobs, and he kept starting businesses and figuring out how things would work.

  • Then, his friend who was a dating coach asked him if he had ever thought about being a coach. For Ben, that was all he needed to start coaching.

[17:30] Getting to Do What You Want: How Ben Found His Interest

  • Ben had eight businesses, which included a candy machine business and an acupuncture practice.

  • He was chasing money for a long time and spent a while trying to figure out how his finances would work.

  • So, he dabbled in things he thought would make money. But after some time, he would feel miserable.

  • His acupuncture practice came close to making him feel good because it allowed him to help people. However, he didn't like the bodywork aspect of it.

  • He loved coaching people on their health, but he wasn’t feeling energized with his acupuncture practice before. Then, he met Clayton and started his coaching practice.

[18:50] Ben: “I wanted to help people empower themselves to fix themselves.”

[19:21] Building His Word-of-Mouth Coaching Business

  • Social media has never been Ben’s thing, so he had to figure out what could get him consistent results. He knew it would be conversations with people.

  • He started a market research project and began talking to entrepreneurially-minded people. He booked 20-30 minute calls with them to listen to their language.

  • From those conversations, Ben learned about people's problems: people-pleasing, fear of failure, and many other things.

  • When he connected with people and felt he could help them, he offered them a coaching session. This thing wound up snowballing.

  • Then, he met some people who were his ‘rocket ships to the moon’, so to speak. They ended up telling many about how Ben helped them. This led to him being booked.

[24:17] Tactical Things to Focus on When Building a Network

  • First, Ben believes businesses have to figure people out if they want to be successful. After all, businesses serve people.

  • He also thinks people have to start with their idea of success. It can be easy to go up a few steps, but those steps might be for an entirely different thing without an idea.

  • He also suggests figuring out a sales process if you already know what business you want and are excited about.

  • Ben thinks believing your businesses so solidly helps people make a purchase from you.

[24:56] Ben: "I want to say start with your idea of success. Start there because if you don't do that, you can climb a ladder very quickly, but it might be up against the wrong building."

[27:09] Why Ben is Not on Social Media

  • Ben doesn’t do social media because he doesn’t like it.

  • He feels that business owners need to do what they have to do in the beginning. But once they figure things out, they can start relaxing.

  • Once you figure out sales and revenue, you can bring in people to help you with the things you don’t want to do.

  • Meanwhile, you do what you want to do.

  • Ben wants to do things that feel authentic and good for him.

[30:54] The Mindset for Building a Business

  • Business owners use two buckets when starting their business. Those are the mindset bucket and strategy bucket.

  • The strategy bucket is when you don’t know what to do.

  • The mindset bucket is when you know what to do, but you're not doing it.

  • Many people think that they can confidently do something when they figure out the right way of doing it. But the opposite is true for Ben.

  • He thinks confidence comes from being courageous in the face of risks.

[35:38] Reframing Procrastination

  • Ben believes there are three reasons why we procrastinate. The first one is because you feel like the task at hand is impossible.

  • The second reason is you don’t know how to start doing something.

  • The last one is values alignment, where you either don't want to do something or you don't like how the world would look after you do it, even if you succeed.

  • If you really don’t believe something is possible for you, you can look for a model who is ready.

  • You can basically imitate the model until you figure things out for yourself.

[42:09] People-Pleasing

  • For Ben, we try to please people for various reasons, one of which is unworthiness. We want people to find us lovable, so we find ways to please them.

  • This can manifest as you saying yes to something even though you don't want to do it, and it feels out of alignment for you.

  • Ben believes it sucks even more if you bend over backward, and people are actually pleased. Because then, you'll have to keep pretending.

  • You will also make yourself believe that the person doesn’t really like you because they don’t know the real you.

[43:41] Mindset Coaching: Actual Results vs Epiphanies

  • Insight and action are two sides of the same coin for Ben. However, they don't weigh the same; it's 20% insight and 80% action.

  • Ben believes in affirmations – we can train our minds to adapt beliefs through affirmations.

  • It’s the same with mindset; you can practice thinking of yourself in different situations. This will help you integrate a new mindset into yourself.

  • This insight and mindset can power you as you practice and take action.

👩 About the Guest

Benjamin Easter is the Founder and Head Coach at Lucid Shift Coaching, where he helps badass business owners develop the resources, strategies, and mindsets to build authentic businesses and experience more meaning, fulfillment, and impact.

Influenced by his love of strategy games and martial training, Ben’s coaching style is a blend of strategic planning, practical exercises, and laser-focused playful curiosity.

Check out Ben’s Lucid Shift Coaching website or Instagram.

😍 Enjoyed this Podcast on Mindset Work?

Mindset plays a huge role in growing a business. Whether it’s taking a risk or figuring out how to only do what you want to do, your mindset (and actions!) will always be a gigantic factor.


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Thanks for listening! Stay tuned to my website for more episode updates and other exciting programs and resources!


Transcript

Ben Easter: If you don't know what to do, okay, then that's a strategy conversation, okay? But if you know what to do and for whatever reason, you're not doing it, that's mindset.


Diana Davis: Welcome to Pollen, the ultimate podcast for creative entrepreneurs. My mission: to empower you to make more money doing what you love, work with dream clients, and turn your creative of gifts into a thriving business without the burnout. I'm your host, Diana Davis. Business coach. Gemini manifesting generator, matcha snob and full time nomad.


Here's the deal. I went from creating a six figure photography business to helping amazing creative souls like you build your own empires. Though I've been there, I get it. Whether you're an artist, designer, writer, yogi, or anything in between, this podcast is your treasure trove of inspiration. So grab your favorite notebook, maybe a matcha, and let's embark on this incredible adventure together.


Hi, Pollen. Welcome to another guest episode. This one is epic. They all are, but, you know, so Ben Easter. First of all, this is our first male guest, which is just incredible. He is a good friend of mine. He has changed my life in many ways. He's also the founder and head coach of Lucid Shift Coaching, where he helps badass business owners develop the resources, strategies and mindsets to build an authentic business and experience more meaning, fulfillment, and impact all the things we're wanting.


So what I want to just drop here as an Easter egg is he doesn't use Instagram, like, at all. And we're going to talk about how he does that and how he built like a sold out coaching practice. So just get ready, buckle up. It's going to be a good one. Enjoy.

I want to tell you about the Ascend Mastermind. It is opening up again this fall. We are so excited to run the fifth round of this epic program. It's literally one of the favorite things I've ever done in my business. Ascend is a Mastermind, but it's also a hybrid of one on one and group.


So not only are you in a room with like minded experts in different industries than yours, entrepreneurs who are ready to go up, they have laid the foundations for their business and they're ready to expand and grow. Not only are you in a room full of those people cheering you on, giving you their expert advice, not just me as your coach, but you literally have several coaches in the room.


But you also get one on one time with me, one on one coaching calls where we dig deep, we excavate, we dream, we plan, we strategize, we bust through limiting beliefs, all of the above. This is a four month coaching program that will change your life. It's incredible. The caliber of people that are in this are just outstanding. The community is unmatched.


So if you're at a place in your creative business where you are bringing in income and you have the foundations laid, but you are ready to expand outward, to go up in your business, to scale, maybe to hire a team.


Maybe to start that podcast, maybe to be in other places, on other channels. This is the place for you to grow and expand, to ascend. So join us by joining the waitlist in the show notes. So if you are ready for the next steps in your business that only can look like your business, not just a blueprint to follow a really truly meet you where you're at container ascend is for you, you can sign up on the waitlist below so you'll be the first to know when doors open.


Hello, Pollen listeners. We have an epic guest for you today. I mean, all the guests are epic, but I think, Ben, you might be the first male on our show, which is kind of fun. But we have an OG friend and often guest coach of Camp Clarity in the room, Ben Easter. We're so excited to have you, Ben. Thanks for being here.


Ben: Yeah, thanks for having me. I love being the first male guest. That's quite a feather in my cap.


Diana: Yes, absolutely. I know you are just wanting that feather, just going for it with the Pollen first male guest episode. So Ben, just give us a little brief overview of who you are and what you do. So we have context here.


Ben: Sure. Yeah. So I'm a business mindset coach and I typically work with early stage service based business owners. Really? Freedom is what I help people do.

So it's figuring out the emotional freedom to feel good about what you're doing, the financial freedom that gives you the power to do all those other things and then really like the social and leadership freedom to kind of enroll people in what you're doing and then build bigger things than you'd be able to do on your own.


Diana: What does freedom, what a word, right? What does freedom mean to you?


Ben: I love this question because I spend so much time thinking about it. So for me, I think freedom and authenticity are really closely linked.


Because for me, what freedom means is the ability to be yourself in every situation, all the time, to show up with your full personhood and do whatever that version of you, that highest and kind of most aligned version of you wants to do in any situation.


So that's where all of the financial freedom is really just about having the finances that you need in order to show up and be yourself in whatever situation you want, to be able to do the kinds of things that you want to do, to be able to create the kinds of systems that you want to create, that sort of thing.


And then all the other stuff is really getting out of your own way. A lot of times people won't show up as their most authentic self because they're scared of how other people might respond to them or something like that. So fear is a big thing that gets in the way.


And so finding freedom is about finding yourself and being you. That advice our mothers all gave us when we were growing up. We hope. So how do you do that?


Diana: Yeah, I love this. I talk about this a lot because I coach a lot on social media, which we're going to dig into as well, and the freedom that you found not being there, which I think is really beautiful. But on social media, I think it's interesting. For me personally, I find a lot of freedom there where other people feel very restricted by it.


But I actually literally was talking to my therapist the other day about this, how if I'm one on one with someone, especially I'm traveling, I'm nomadic, I'm meeting new people. You're trying to fit in and make them like you, and you're filtering yourself for that person.


nd I am definitely a person who is very in tune with other people's reactions and needs, and that's a whole childhood thing, but I'm very in tune to it, so I tend to filter myself and chameleon to that person to make them feel comfortable.


But when I'm talking to 8000 people on Instagram, I can't filter myself because there's so many, it's too many to filter. So I'm actually my most authentic free self on Instagram. Like, right before this call, I was dancing around on stories. I'm like, fuck it, let's do this.


Would I do that in front of a guy I just met? Probably not. You know what I mean? So it's really interesting what freedom means to all of us. I think financial freedom means different things. It doesn't have to mean like, you're flying on a private jet around the world.


I love your perspective of it can mean, what is success to you? Also, it's like my version of success might be someone else's just every day, and their version of success might be first class flights everywhere they go. And maybe that's not something I need. So I think that whole concept is really interesting.


Ben: Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that a lot of, especially early stage entrepreneurs skip over is defining success for themselves. Because if you're not careful, I mean, everybody's going to tell you what success looks like. Everyone from the stories you've been getting from childhood, from your parents and your siblings and your society around you, to everybody on Instagram is going to tell you what you hear this ten K a month number a lot.


There's just like, a lot of stories about what success looks like in the world. And I think that if people aren't careful to listen to what they want and what success looks like for them and what their vision for their life is and start there, then it can be really easy to get caught up in a hamster wheel or a rat race or having a moving goalpost for what success actually looks like in your life.


Diana: Yeah, and I say this story a lot, but I want to mark why you and I know each other and how much impact you've had in my life, just in the little tiny tidbits. And I was in a detrimental, to be fair spot in just my mental health business.


All of it. Just like on this anxiety roller coaster of having this successful six figure photography business three years in and being tossed around and never knowing when the next thing was coming in. Having a lot of stress around these societal success pressures of what things should look like, how they should be organized.


And it was like February, January 2020, before we really knew even the pandemic was happening. So that and I remember getting introduced to you, which is another pin in it I want to talk about, but having this life coaching, basically, session with you and saying, ben, I just feel like I want to stop winging it.


Like, I remember it so clearly. I just want to stop winging it. I feel like I should have these quarterly goals and I should feel like I should have the Excel spreadsheets and it all figured out and like these society pressures that are being put on me, which I didn't realize at the time.


And I remember you just saying, like, Diane, you have a thriving business. Yes, you might be burning out, maybe there's some adjustments that need to be made, et cetera, but you have a thriving business and a beautiful life and you're winging it.

How awesome is that? You're able to wing it. And I just remember you saying, picture the birds floating on the airwaves. They're winging it. They're not like flapping around, basically drowning all the time.


They are just floating with the airwaves. And I was just blown away. And you were actually one of the first people also to talk about, oddly enough, feminine energy and that kind of thing, being growing up in a very feminine household and what that looks like for you, and the acupuncture and all the stuff which we'll get into.

So very cool. Any thoughts on all of that?


Ben: Yeah, I mean, it's just really cool stuff. I love hearing that. I remember that conversation and just like, how much that story was. And by the way, that's really common.


If you're listening to this, you probably have, if not right now, have had some version of a story about shoulds and what you are supposed to do and what you must do in order to be successful and what success looks like in the world and all that stuff.

So I love that that landed so much with you because I think that's one of the kind of steps to really opening up and living life on our own terms.


Diana: Yeah, I think as coaches, we are the flashlight holders and the permission slip writers like a lot of that's actually what we do, by the way. Secrets out, right?


Ben: We’ll hold the curtain back for you.


Diana: Yeah, absolutely. So let's dig into your story for a second since we started to talk about it. First of all, I want to know tidbits of were you this way as a kid? Were there things that are showing up now that were happening to you as a kid?


Like, I was such a creative, I was doing all the things. I was also really fucking bossy. I needed a soapbox. I needed a platform. I love to organize little clubs and groups and stuff like that. So it just all makes sense. Were there things like that? And then can you just give us a brief timeline of your winding path?


Ben: Sure. Yeah. So to answer the question, I think maybe some of the seeds were there. My journey as a coach, I think, started when I was, like, 15. I was scholarshiped into this golf teacher.


He basically scholarshiped me because we couldn't afford it, and he introduced me to Deepak Chopra. And part of the requirement for the scholarship was that I had to listen to Deepak Chopra every night before I went to sleep. And then before my lesson, I would have to tell him what I learned from Deepak Chopra that week.

And that was so powerful. Andre Panet-Raymond moment, changed my life. I love that guy. Yeah. But that was where I was really learning about visualization and the power of creating a life.


The reason he wanted me studying Deepak was because golf is so visual. You're so much about visualizing your shots and things like that. And there's not that big a leap, actually, from visualizing a life to visualizing a golf shot. I mean, really, it's the same thing.


You want to see the thing that you want in your mind, and then that will help your body to do the execution piece. Just seeing it, it's not magic, but it's kind of like magic. It's really cool thing.


So anyway, that's where that started. When I was young, I wanted to be an actor, and I think what I loved about that was being a source of shining light in the world, not so much the pretending. And then I got to college, and I realized I was like, I had this crazy mushroom experience. I don't know if there's anything I'm not supposed to talk about on this call.


Diana: No, It's all out there.


Ben: Yes. Great. Yeah. So I had this crazy mushroom experience, and then I got to college, and I was like, man, I just don't want to pretend anymore. I'm not interested in getting up and faking things anymore. I got really into philosophy, religion, studied all that stuff in college as I had this massive head injury as well, and then lost my social skills.


So I had to redevelop the social skills. That was a big part of my journey because, well, one, it was a really hard experience, something to go through, but also the power of understanding that it was a skill and that I could relearn my social skills was really impactful for me because there was this point where I thought I was broken.

And then to have come through that and then redeveloped my social skills was like, holy shit. What else is possible in the world?


Even from a young age, I was always unemployable. I sold weed back before it was cool. I didn't really work well in jobs, so I would always start businesses and just figure out how to make things work. I was really scrappy. And then I had that head injury, learned my social skills. And then I had a friend who was a coach, like a dating coach, basically. And I was listening to him and talking through some things with him one night. And then I remember that he had this moment where he was like I could see he saw me differently in that moment. And he was like, have you ever thought about being a coach?


And that was the permission slip that I needed from that coach to really be like, oh, I might be able to do this. And so he kind of took me under his wing, taught me initial sales strategy, things like that, and I've been coaching ever since. That was in 2015. I love it. It's one of my favorite things.


Diana: Yeah. How did you land? Do you think the Deepak Chopra situation kind of landed you with more of the mindset stuff?


Ben: Yeah, absolutely. Because a lot of it because, again, I was rehearsing it every night. I was really thinking about it, and this was a formative time in my life. I'm in high school, 15, 16 years old, and I was thinking about quantum healing and what it means to find pain in your body and resolve it, and how your thoughts really create everything about your reality and all this stuff.


I was literally practicing every night. And so I think that that made a huge impact on me. When I had my head injury and I was going through the process of redeveloping my social skills, so much of that was like, recognizing how I was creating this world where I was not enough and I would never be good enough because I was fundamentally broken and all this stuff.


And then changing that story really gave me the energy to go in and do the practice, which was that's where the change actually comes from.


Diana: What a gift from that golf guy. Good Lord. To have someone when you're 15 be spilling that stuff into your soul is just that's powerful.


Ben: Man, you’re telling me. I loved that guy.


Diana: So you had an acupuncture situation in there, too?


Ben: Yeah, so I had eight businesses, so I ran a candy machine business. I had an acupuncture practice. I got my graduate degree in Chinese medicine, and I really loved that. I kind of think of my history as being sort of a series of breadcrumbs.


I kept trying some stuff and then being like because I was chasing money for a long time, I was, like, trying to figure out how finance could work for me. And so I would do what I thought would make money, and then I would make some money at it and be like, God, this is miserable. And then I would quit that and try something else.


And so the acupuncture was just one of the more recent ones in a long line of businesses where I was just, like, trying to figure out money. And so I was like, I knew I wanted to help people. I had identified that for sure.


And I thought, well, okay, I'd been doing kung fu for like, ten years at this point. And I had healed myself a lot with my mind from Deepak Chopra stuff, from the kung fu, the tai chi stuff. And I was like, okay, well, maybe that's the thing. And so I went to school for that. And that was really challenging to go through because it was so close.


I really loved the helping of people, but I just didn't like the body work piece of it. I wasn't really like and the way that our culture, or at least my clients now, I know it was my mindset at the time, but the way that I was bringing clients into my practice was people who wanted to be fixed.


Basically, I wanted to help people empower themselves to fix themselves. That was what I was really interested in. And so I was spending so much more time.

Now, I know I was coaching them on their health, but at the time, I was really not energized, not inspired by the work that I was doing. And that was when I met Clayton and started the coaching practice.


Diana: Beautiful. Which I know, Clayton we've had dinner randomly in Sedona because of you and your connections and all the things which I love. Yeah, let's talk connections. So how did we build out this word of mouth coaching business then?


Ben: Oh, I love it. And by the way, this is magic because social media has never really been my thing. I don't love it. I don't love talking out of camera. Podcasts, I have actually found is really awesome.


So my podcast works really well for me, but I hadn't figured that out yet. So I was like, what do I do? What do I do that I can consistently do that kind of gets me results in the world? And I knew it was conversations with people, and so I was like, all right, well, cool. Well, how can I have more conversations with people?


And so I started doing a market research project. So I knew that I wanted to work with business owners. I didn't know exactly how I didn't know what kind of language to use. And so I just started asking everybody I knew, like, look, it started out with I'm trying to talk to entrepreneurially minded individuals, right? So do you know anybody like that? And so I started filling up my calendar.


I did a market research project where I was trying to talk to 100 entrepreneurially minded people. And then I started to notice that the people that I liked talking to the most, they were using this word badass a lot, right? And so I was like, oh, okay, cool.


So I'll start saying badass entrepreneurs or badass business owners. And then I started to get like the ears were pricking up from the people who I was liking the most.


And so I started to fill my calendar with these market research calls. I was just saying, like, hey, would you be willing to have a 2030 minutes conversation with me where I listen because I know I want to help people like you, but I don't exactly know how you got like, I know I'm a good coach, but I don't know how to talk about it with my people.


So would you be willing so I can just listen, I'll record the conversation, I'll just listen to your language. And then out of those conversations of learning a ton about the languaging, about the kinds of problems that people were facing, the people pleasing, the overwhelm, the fear of failure, the fear of rejection, the comparison, all those things, and I was like, hearing these themes show up again and again.


And anytime I really connected with somebody and I thought that I might be able to help them, I would also offer them a coaching session because I'm trying to get my reps in, right? And then that just wound up snowballing.


I'm a big fan of this idea called the Long Tail Success, which is basically you take a lot of bats and then some of them are going to go nowhere. Some of them are going to go somewhere, some of them are going to go far, and then some of them are just going to be rocket ships to the moon.


And that's why the stock market is always a solid investment, because it's exactly that. If you just invest in all the stocks, then you'll get the rocket ships to the moon and that'll make up for all the other kind of failures or whatever, right?


So that was the game that I was playing and I finally ran into a couple of people. It was like right around the time I met you, actually, who were my rocket ships to the moon. And not only did they get great results, not only did they sign up for coaching, but they just couldn't stop telling people about me. They were just telling everybody and their mother about me.


And so my calendar filled up and it stayed full ever since. I don't know that was two years ago or whatever. Two years.


Diana: I love it. Yeah. And you also had asked specifically, I would love to offer you a free coaching session. In exchange, it'd be so helpful if you introduce me to five other people that you know that could help me with this market research project. Is that correct?


Ben: Yeah. So at the end of every one of the calls, I was asking people kind of a few questions. One was how they liked it, how was the call? How was this for you?

And then if they enjoyed it, then I would be like, cool, well, I'm on this project trying to get to 100, your number, whatever number you were. Do you know anybody else who might be willing to have one of these conversations with me? And then I would just take it from there.


So, like, each one of these calls, I mean, again, some of them went nowhere, but some of them would lead to 510, 15 other people. And that was kind of the game. So I would be having those conversations. And then the branches, the tree, I've always wanted to map it, actually, kind of to see where did all the connections come from.


Diana: But yeah, because it's interesting. I love one of my favorite things is when people are joining my programs and I'm introducing them online. I like to say how they got to me, partially because I'm a business coach and I want people to be expanded.


I mean, this whole podcast is to be expanded by other people, but to be expanded for the crazy ways people come into your orbit. Like, I'll be like, this person's joining Camp Clarity, and they went to college with me. That's crazy. They've been following along this whole time.


Or I posted about a photography backdrop, tagged the company, they reposted me, and this photographer saw it and she came in. So it's like, it can be so cool. And I think the way that we met is through your wife Paige, who lived in Bozeman and then introduced you to Bozeman people, who introduced you to me, which is cool.


And then I introduced you to my New York network, and it just is like networking. And what would you say is top two things, strategy wise, that people need to be focusing on? Not even like the mindset and stuff yet, but tactical things people need to be focusing on when building a business. Networking, I think, is absolutely one of them.


Ben: I don't think there's a lot of substitute for networking, but I would say that there are different ways you can do networking. Like, social media is a way that you can absolutely do networking.


But at the end of the day, businesses serve people. And so somehow you have to figure out people if you're going to have a successful business.


Okay, so that's one thing. And then the other thing, I think that it'd be hard to say which thing? Because again, I want to say start with your success, your idea of success.


Start there. Because if you don't do that, you can climb the ladder very quickly, but it might be up against the wrong building. That'll chestnut. But let's assume that you know that this is the business that you want to do and that you're very excited about it.


Then the next thing that I really want to get you super focused on is sales. Figuring out your sales process. First you getting sold. So find the way of packaging and positioning your services that you think to yourself, literally, they'd be an idiot not to sign up for this. I really believe that the value is so phenomenal that it would be ridiculous for them not to sign up. And get yourself to that place first, and then the rest of it will take care of itself.


Because if you just show up shining your light that way, then other people are going to be swept up in that. Because if from in a very authentic place that's what you believe in the world, well, then you're going to be able to help them navigate whatever beliefs they have that are getting in the way of them making a purchase because you believe it so solidly.


So that would be the strategically, sales is the number one thing I think business owners can do early stage.


Diana: Yeah. I always say it's like, make it like you're inviting them to the best house party of the year. It's like you're the sorority girl in the square of the university with the megaphone going like, come to my fucking party. It's going to be baller, like, let's go.

Instead of like the Girl Scout cookie person who's like, will you buy some cookies from me? Because I need to make quota, right?


Ben: Yeah, exactly. And honestly, if you're not there yet, it's okay, because a lot of people, they start where they're like, but ask yourself, what would it take for you to believe that you had the most killer house party of the century at a place right? What do you think it would take?


And then start building those things right now, and maybe you're not there, and that's okay, but get yourself there as quickly as you can so that you can shout with the megaphone.


Diana: Yeah, maybe we need to rent a chocolate fountain or something for the party.


Ben: Yeah, exactly. Design that. And that's what I'm saying. We start with our mind, right? Like, you're like, oh, what would make the coolest party in the world? And then the chocolate fountain pops into your mind. Right. So sitting with that question is really useful.


Diana: So beautiful. I want to touch on why you're not on social media. And then I want to get into the nitty gritty mindset work that you do. So I know I followed your journey on this. I felt like, this is my projection of what I saw of you being like, oh, I feel like there's such opportunity there. I should I should, I should there was, like, a lot of societal pressure, maybe for you.


You actually going and doing the thing, hiring people, then to do the thing, and then eventually going like, you know what? This just isn't aligned for me, and I'm fucking booked out. I don't need this channel. So I would love just, like, a little synopsis of what you went through with that.


Ben: Yeah. And I think that's pretty much the nail on the head for me. It was like, I just don't like doing anything that I don't like doing is what it really comes down to. This is for all business owners. As soon as you figure out revenue, stop doing anything that you don't like. Yeah, okay. Figure out whatever you got to do in the beginning. You're earning it. You're earning your freedom in the beginning.


But once you figure out revenue, then you can kind of relax, pump the brake, bring in people to help you with the things that you don't want to do in the early stages. You're going to do all of it, because that's just what it looks like to be an early stage business owner. Okay? But once you figure out revenue, then start at the bottom of your list.


What are the things that you hate the most and start peeling them off one at a time? Either ask yourself kind of there's a few questions. One is, does this even have to happen? Is it essential? Could I just stop doing this thing? And if I did, what would my business collapse or whatever? And if the answer is no, it wouldn't collapse and I hate the thing. Just stop doing it. Okay.


Now if we have everything is on the list is essential now. Now we're going to ask questions like, okay, cool. Is it optimized? Am I spending as little time as I can? Am I reworking it? Or is there anything that I have to keep doing it over? Are there a lot of mistakes?


Because we want to optimize the processes early on. And then after that, is there anything that we can automate? Do I have to be doing this? Or could a system or a software be doing this?


And then the final question is enroll. All right. So I can't optimize it, or it's already optimized. I can't automate it anymore. I can't do that. All right, cool. Now the question is, who could do this? Who could I enroll in doing this so that I can get it off my plate.



Yeah, but that was what happened with social media was I was just like, I don't like it. I don't like doing it. Don't like talking to my camera. I know that's a great way to do it. I might figure out a way to do it where it feels good because I really do like teaching and sharing things in the world, and that's a big win for me.


But again, it's got to feel authentic for me. And so I just was peeling inauthentic things out of my business. I didn't need them, I don't want them.


Diana: Yeah, I love it. And I love also that you tried it because there's a lot of resistance too. I think in, like you said, beginning stages, you're going to do it all and you should do it all. Kind of there's that part, but you kind of like need to try it.


Ben: Try to see what you do and do not and what's holding you back because you're afraid of it, maybe, versus actually not in alignment for you.


Diana: Yeah, love it. I have a feeling.


Ben: I did the 60 day every day, posted for 60 days just so I could get out of my that was actually when I shaved my head because it's so funny. I was authenticity. Right?

So I was like, recording. And I was always trying to find the right angle so that you couldn't tell that I had this balding patch up here. And when I shaved my head, I was like, holy shit, my whole life just got free because I stopped trying to pretend. And then I could just record the things. And that was like a breakthrough moment for me.


Diana: Wow. I love that.


Ben: This is what you find as you go on your journey.


Diana: See, social media did that for you, and it served its purpose.


Ben: Totally. Exactly.


Diana: Beautiful. So mindset wise, you mentioned a few things, people pleasing. What would you say are the top? Would you call them blocks? Limiting beliefs of especially these early stage entrepreneurs. Mindset is such a big thing.


So many people think it's just strategy. Like, just give me the strategy, I'll do the thing. But it is so much about believing in your offers and being able to sell and believing in yourself and being able to show up with confidence and all of that. So walk us through a little bit of that.


Ben: Yeah. And I think that the two kind of buckets for business owners to think of in terms of starting their business is the mindset bucket and the strategy bucket. Totally. And the strategy bucket is if you don't know what to do, then that's a strategy conversation.


But if you know what to do and for whatever reason you're not doing it, that's mindset bucket. Okay, so figure those things out. And a lot of the I'd say, the most common limiting beliefs, I was listing some of them. But I think perfectionism or this idea that there is some right way to do something and that if only I can figure out the right way is a way that we creatively avoid taking risky action, and then that keeps us small.


Because everybody's like, well, when I have the confidence to do the thing, then I'll go do it. And it's like, that's completely backwards. Where confidence comes from is actually taking courageous action in the presence of risk. And if you're avoiding risk, you are literally avoiding confidence. You cannot have the one without the other. It'd be like saying, I want the tails, but I don't want the head. You just can't have that. It doesn't work that way.


So take risky action and perfectionism and the right way that gets in the way of that because we're like, oh, I'm going to try to figure out how to make everything safe so that when I go out there and take action, there's no risks.


And it's like, okay, well, even if you were able to figure that out, you wouldn't get what you were looking for, which is the confidence to show up. Because now you're always going to be trying to manage everybody else's expectations.


Comparison, I think, is something that shows up a lot, especially early stage, but even actually on into that mid stage, honestly, I think comparison and impostor syndrome wind up showing up for people even who are wildly successful, have those things showing up.


And this is like, I think, really troubling for people because it can get in the way. You can always be like, now even though you're doing really cool things in the world, you're telling a story that you're not, and that can be demotivating. deenergize rising, and we just want to get that shit out of the way.


Stay in your own lane like all the other cars on the road. You're not worried, like, that they're going to get to their destinations before you get to your destination, right? Because you don't know where their destinations are. You don't give a shit about their destinations, right? You're not trying to do that.


So really, that's the same way that success works. Be in charge of your car and you don't know where they're coming from. You don't know where they're going to stay in your lane, basically. So that's the comparison thing. I think overwhelm is something that really shows up, especially as business starts to pick up in the early stage and you start to like, actually it works.


Then it's like, oh shit, I have so many things to do, and I'm overwhelmed. And that can be very demotivating because you're like a lot of times my clients come to me because they were like, well, I started this business for freedom, and now here I am, three years in, and I'm less free than I was when I was in corporate. Like, what the hell happened?


And so figuring out priorities and understanding how to again, ask those questions about optimizing, automating and enrolling to help take some of those things off, but really prioritize too. Again, what are the most important things? So I think there's a ton of them, a laundry list of them. I think those are some of the most important ones that show up for people.


Diana: Yeah, I think I mean, what was it you said, that you can't have confidence without risk?


Ben: Without courageous action.


Diana: Without courageous action.


Ben: Yeah. And courageous action can only happen in the presence of risk.


Diana: Yeah. I love that. Such a gem. You're also an analogy guy, which is why we're like soul business mates. I love a good analogy. The car thing is so genius, and then even just the creatively avoiding is so interesting. Right.


I would also say procrastination is definitely a thing for me and a lot of creatives, specifically, we're not just talking entrepreneurs here, we're talking creative entrepreneurs. And it's that whole cliche idea of you can't force good work. It has to come to you, and you have to be inspired. And I've learned to sort of almost embrace my procrastination, know when it's actually toxic and know when it's like, I actually have a deadline and I need a deadline, and I work better under the fire.


But I'd love to talk about that a little bit. Like, what's your opinion on procrastination? Is it real? Is there a way to reframe it? Is there a way to get rid of it? What does that look like?


Ben: Yeah. So I'm a big fan of letting go of the idea of white knuckling our way through anything, really. And I think that motivation is a myth because we're all motivated.


When was the last time you said, well, I'd go to the bathroom if only we're a little bit more motivated? And it's like, no, you figure out a way to go. Right. So we're all motivated to do certain things. And I think what we're really talking about is alignment.


And so with procrastination, there's like, three kind of reasons I think that we procrastinate. One is that we don't know well. The first one is that we don't believe that it's possible for us. So if I'm trying to push a mountain over, I'm going to procrastinate that all day long because I don't believe that it's possible for me to push that mountain. So I'm just going to save myself the energy.


My brain is set up to conserve energy and keep me alive. So if you don't believe it's possible, then you're not going to take action. I'll go through kind of what you can do about them in just a second, but the first one is possibility.


The second one is how? Okay, you might believe that it's possible, but you don't know how to get started doing it. Okay. And if that's the case, you're going to procrastinate because you'll be like, even in the act of wanting to do something about it, you don't know what to do. So you feel a little bit impotent around it, and so then it's easier.


Other things are always going to be popping up and demanding your attention. So you'll just do those things because it's easier than trying to tackle this thing that you don't know how to do. And then the last one, the one that it's tricky, it's got a couple of ways that it can show up in the world, but is values alignment.


So if it's out of values alignment for us, then we'll procrastinate. And that means a couple of things. One is either we don't like to do the thing itself, okay. We don't actually enjoy the act of it.


And the other is really sneaky. This is the one where it's super sneaky and you want to be on the lookout for it is if you don't believe that you would like the way that the world would look even if you were successful.


So let me give you an example. So when I was first building my coaching practice, I was having a really hard time going out and doing the thing. And part of what I wasn't understanding that was happening was there was a part of me that was really afraid that I was going to have a successful coaching business and then I would be on the hook, my calendar would be full and I would be on the hook to talking to people all day.


And there was a part of me that really was scared that my freedom would be impinged. Right. So I thought even in my best case scenario, there was a part of me that was believing I wouldn't like my life when I was successful. And that is a super sneaky one that shows up and causes procrastination because you won't take action because you're trying to protect yourself from the best case scenario, actually.


So reconciling yourself with that when I realized like, oh, I actually really love talking to people on the phone. And when my calendar is full, I'm going to have a day full of the thing I most love to do in the world. That was when it started to get easy to take action around that stuff. So there's that one. And then if you don't believe that it's possible for you, go find a model.


Go find somebody who's already I promise you somebody else has already figured out how to do either the thing that you're trying to do or something very close to it. Go find them and watch them. Yeah. This is the way that everybody learns to walk when we're growing up.


Diana: I call them expanders.


Ben: Yeah. We find a model and then we imitate them basically to the best of our ability until we figure it out for ourselves. So imitate before you innovate.


Diana: Love that. Yeah, I've had that sneaky one often because I was so burnt out as a photographer and a graphic designer that I often will not launch something that I have fully in my soul. Ready? I know it's going to be good. I know it's going to be epic. But I'm like, I'm scared to work that hard again. Upper limiting yourself.


Ben: Yeah. I had one client — this was her favorite — she loved to have somebody say, yes, I want to sign, I'm ready to pay you. Send over the contract. And then she would wait for weeks and she's like, I don't understand, I'm procrastinating on this.

And it's like, yeah, well, that's because the engagements that you built in the past were full of people pleasing and poor boundaries and you never enjoyed the work. So no wonder you don't want to close more business and actually have them sign because now you're going to feel like you're beholden to them.


Diana: Obviously. Totally. Obviously.


Ben: Yeah. I mean, once you see it, once you look at it, it's obvious, right?


Diana: Yeah, totally. I used to Emily, actually, Meryl, she was my coach first ever, and she used to say, why do you not do the thing that's like the money making thing? Like send the invoice? You're like literally that one step. You'll do everything else, but you won't send the invoice. And it's like, ew.


Ben: If this is the reason that you're procrastinating, by the way, you'll wonder that for weeks and months, you'll be like, it's the thing. The thing. I don't understand. It's the one thing. And it's like because you're actually not wanting to close the business, you're secretly afraid of the life that you're going to create if you do succeed.


Diana: Could it also be I feel like it could come up also as maybe a fear of rejection of like, once I send that invoice, there's no way they're going to pay. Yeah.


Ben: Or the other way that can look is like a fear of inadequacy. So if they sign and then I'm on the hook for it, maybe I'm actually secretly not good enough. Right, yeah. And that's going to be a mindset block as well. That shows up.


Diana: Yeah. Can you define people pleasing?


Ben: People pleasing is saying yes to things that you're actually not a yes to is the easiest way to define it.


Diana: Yeah. I think a lot of us throw around this term. And I was talking to therapist again the other day love therapy. And talking about the difference between just being a people person and a people pleaser, because I think we can also turn a lot of these concepts because they're so buzzy and we hear them all the time of like, oh, well, I made dinner for someone, and I guess I'm a people pleaser.


And it's like, but what if you're just like a people person and you're just accommodating and know they need dinner and you're excited to make them dinner and whatever, right, that's a great distinction. Yeah, I think it's interesting, but we definitely go through the people pleasing a lot in my courses, just it comes up. And I think one of the coolest ways I've heard it mentioned is that it's actually kind of a manipulative tactic if we really look at it because we're doing something so that someone likes us more so that we feel more comfortable.


It's not really about pleasing them. It's about pleasing them so we feel more comfortable. Do you agree?


Ben: Yeah, I mean, that's one of the reasons. Actually, Clayton and I did a podcast on this on our podcast, talking about people pleasing and all. I think there are a variety of reasons why we do it. Some of it is unworthiness. Some of it is that story of like, oh man, I just want to be lovable and want to be the kind of person who's lovable.


And honestly, I think a lot of times to that distinction you were talking about a minute ago, a lot of times the reasons that we do things for people are not always people pleasing. I don't think it's always out of our best interest. It's when it's out of our best interest.


That's the trick is, like if you have something that feels out of alignment for you and you said yes to it and you're doing it even though you know on some level that it's not the thing that you want to do, that's when it's something to be questioned and to wonder, to center yourself in your own experience.


Actually similar same client, interestingly enough, had this situation. It's so funny because she's like, oh, you bend over backwards to kind of try to please people and then, yeah, that sucks. But also what really sucks is if it works and they're actually pleased, two things happen.


One is that you have to keep pretending to be that person that you're not in order to keep that person around. And two is you'll never even let yourself believe that they really like you because you know secretly that they're not even really seeing the real you and set yourself up for a no-win situation in that case. So good.


Diana: So I want to kind of end on with your mindset coaching and people working with you. What does it look like? Are we coming to you? And we're like, hey, Ben having this issue. And you're like, here's some tactical things around that. Here's some advice. Here's what we do.


Is there kind of a how do we get actual results versus these epiphanies? Like, we can have an epiphany and nothing changes.


Ben: I love that you said that. That's great. Yeah. My model for this is that it's like insight and action are two sides of the coin. So it's like a YinYang symbol that kind of spins. So we take action so that we can learn some stuff, so that we can take more action, so that we can learn more stuff.


But the weighting of that is not 50-50, it's 20% insight and 80% action. So we really want to be in action around these things. So if you have an insight and in fact, I would invite you if you're listening to this and you've had a moment of insight today on this call, and hopefully you wrote it down. If you haven't written it down, write it down before you forget. Okay?


And then you want to practice that thought. You want to go take 5 minutes and close your eyes and imagine a situation where that thought would be really relevant for you. And what would you do having that thought in your mind and practice thinking that thought. So that's a lot of the mindset stuff and there's behaviors that go with it, right?


So for me, I'm a big fan of Affirmations. I'm a huge fan of Affirmations, if only because we can brute force beliefs into our minds through Affirmations. And that is really useful if you want to believe that you're a valuable person, that your product is really useful for people.


Think it. Practice thinking that over and over again. And just like you wouldn't expect to get strong by thinking about the gym, right? You would know that you would have to go to the gym to get strong, right? It's the same thing.


You're going to get your reps if you're going to get strong. It's the same thing with your mindsets. So we want to be practicing it. We will be practicing it in as many different ways as we can think of to practice it. We want to be engaging with it regularly, imagining ourselves as the kind of person who already has this mindset integrated for ourselves.


Yeah, so that's the answer to that. On the calls, we are doing a lot of insight work. So when I'm showing up, but we're doing it in the context of strategy too. So for me, these mindsets, they're not just going to show up in some esoteric way. They're going to show up when you're trying to do something and for whatever reason, it's not happening in the world, right?


That's where we're going to look at the mindsets. And so all of it's going to be in the context of we have some goals that are set for you and you're trying to accomplish some things and something's not working. And that has to do with how you're thinking about it. And so then we're going to have those insights.


We're going to find out how are you believing about the world? And then one of the things that I really love to do, the game that I like to play is actually to help somebody to kind of break out of that thought that they were having and see it in a new way. And that initial insight can give us the energy and the motivation to go and take the practice and go do the things.


So then in between sessions, it'll be okay, go practice this thought, go practice thinking this way. Go practice showing up as the person who already believes this. And that's how you integrate it. You behave it to become it.


Diana: So if we're procrastinating just as a tactical example, because we love those, if we're procrastinating on sending the invoice, for example, and we have an epiphany that why we do that is because of the success issue. What is the tactical, go practice that, think it.


Ben: Okay, so we didn't get to an insight for that. Then we have just identified what the block is. So the first thing that we would want to do is actually figure out a way for you to be reconciled to the future where they sign the invoice.


So we want to figure out a way for you to actually believe that it will be in your best interest and that you'll be really excited about the life that you'll be living when that happens. And we can't do that by ignoring the fact that you're really worried that your calendar is going to be so full that you're not going to have any time for your friends or whatever.


So if we don't figure out a way to solve the actual practical thing in the world, which is figuring out how you manage your time or how you manage your relationships or your boundaries or whatever.


If we don't actually come up with a plan for you to do that, then it doesn't matter how much you think. Oh, it's really nice for me. Right. You won't believe it. So we need to come up with a real world belief for that. So that would be the work that we would do in the coaching session is actually getting you to a place where you're like, you know what?


I actually would be really fucking excited to close this. I can see what I could do, what my plan is for keeping my boundaries, for how I can really be in relationship with my client or whatever. Yeah, love that. And from there, then we could go and practice the thought.


Diana: Beautiful. So good. Okay, Ben, it's time for we're going to do a little lightning round situation. Are you ready for that? I'm braced. You're braced? Okay, great. And then I want to just talk about what you have going on in your world, your podcast, the things, ways they can tap into you. I think you're an astrology guy?


Ben: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Sagittarius. Double Sg.


Diana: Okay, let's talk about it. What is your Moon, your Sun and your Rising? Or I should say Sun, Moon, and Rising?


Ben: So I'm Sun Sag, Rising Sag, and Moon Gemini.


Diana: Wow. We are so, like, similar in weird ways because I'm Gemini Sun, Sagittarius Moon, Scorpio Rising. Here we do you identify with the Sag mindset?


And can you, not necessarily mindset, but for those, a lot of people aren't as familiar with Sagittarius, which is interesting to me. It's just not one of the ones that get kind of graded on. I think we're just not always bragging about always gemini scorpios. I feel like those always get the bad rap aries. Anyway. Do you identify with that? And what does that mean?


Ben: Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, you could even hear we started this conversation in the context of freedom, and that's what Sagittarius is all about. Right. I love the signs as symbols. So you've got the centaur, the half human, half beast.


So we're philosophers, our heads are in the stars, but then also we have these animalistic passions and urges that we're kind of split like that the desire to run, to just gallop away. I actually from social situation to social situation, from partner to partner, from friend to friend, all of that.


Just like variety in experience is so important. I'm also seven on the Enneagram, so it backs that up.


Diana: Yeah. I can never decide if I'm seven or three. Test different all the time. Oh, really? Interesting beast know human. Here we are. But yeah, no, I think a lot of similarities between the Gemini and the Sag for sure.


Ben: And then the Gemini is like, I'm so connection driven and so the moon and Gemini I think really resonates with me too. Like, just the people just wanted to be in connection with people. Yes. So meaningful.


Diana: I love it. What does creativity mean to you?


Ben: I think creativity is about taking raw materials and turning them into something that you want. It's starting with the vision again.


It's having something in mind that you want to see in the world or that you want to feel in the world and then using whatever raw materials you have, whether they be a canvas and paintbrush a camera in light, or the ideas of how a business works and then creating that in the world. I think that's what creativity is for me.


Diana: We're alchemists.


Ben: Yeah, exactly.


Diana: Do you have an entrepreneurial crush? Someone you really look up to or just admire, an expander or anything like that?


Ben: Nice. That's awesome. That's an awesome question. Well, I'm only going to say positive things. I had one and then I actually joined his programs and I was less excited.


Diana: Bummer!


Ben: Ann then I got to meet him. Yeah. But right now I'm a huge fan of this lady, Stacey Bayman. I don't know if you've ever heard of her, but she's like a coach. She's really figured out what my next level of business is also going to look like, and so I'm super excited know, join your mastermind this year. And I'm really excited about that. That’s like, that's my entrepreneurial crush.


Diana: Yeah, it's always good to have a crush on your not not like a romantic crush, but like you're where I'm at. I admire you. Yeah, that's a good.


Ben: Also, Dan Sullivan is another coach that I just really admire. I love listening to that guy. I could just put it on bread with honey.


Diana: Yes. I love that. Okay. What are you reading or listening to right now that maybe you hate it, maybe it's awful, or maybe you'd recommend it.


Ben: Gosh, I'm always reading so many things. I have like, a couple of the book clubs that I am part of. I'm reading Friends by Robin Dunbar, which is all about our social circles and how those work. I don't know if I'd probably recommend the Cliff Notes of it rather than the actual book. It's got a lot of data in it. I'm just not a huge fan of that.


But I'm also reading Building a Second Brain by Tiago Forte, which is fantastic because for me, I'm all about the creation of content this year. That's like a really big part of my emphasis in the business. And so figuring out what are those concepts that I'm always using and I'm always pulling together.


And then to have some way to organize those in a digital space so that I can capture everything is something that's really important. And I love that book. It's really fantastic for it, just for how do you organize a digital world. And that's what that book is all about.


And then I'm reading another book called 100 Million Dollar Offers: Offers So Good People Would Feel Stupid Saying No To Them. And I'm not learning anything new from it. But the way it's organized is brilliant. And especially for the audience that's listening to this.


Highly recommend it because it's a lot of the business, like sort of MBA basics, like 101 stuff put together in a very clear way so that you can create offers that you love and that other people would love for audiences that would love them as well.


Diana: Yeah, no brainers. Cool. I love that. Love all the wrecks. If money, time, resources didn't matter, you didn't have to worry about paying rent, putting food on the table, logistics, any limiting anything, what would you create just to create?


Ben: Okay, so other than what I'm creating already, which is I love, the next thing for us to create is actually the school of skills. So we're developing an educational model based on skills versus knowledge. It's like my passion, it's like my life mission kind of thing.


So I'm really excited about that. It would be an absolute revolution of the way that we think about not just raising young people, but just like, people thinking about developing skills in the world from an entrepreneurial perspective, from a creativity perspective, from a personal reflection perspective, and really understanding yourself. And all of that being baked into the model of a game that we play and learn.


Diana: So we'll be seeing that sometime very soon.


Ben: Yeah. Actually, this year we have the model already for the coaching business, but this year is the final stage of our coaching business. And then after this, all of that was just to get to a point where I don't have to worry about money and getting shit on the food on the table and all that stuff so that I can create this business. Because that's the next stage, next year.


Diana: Congrats. That's incredible. Cool. Ben, this has been such an awesome conversation. So good. Always. How do we connect with you. What's the name of your podcast? You're not on the socials, so?


Ben: Yeah, so. lucid_shift_coaching is where mostly the only reason that we use it is to promote the podcast. The podcast is called The Shift to Freedom, and it's just like, really solid conversations like this.


We have Clayton, who I mentioned a couple of times in this call, and Paige are also my co collaborators, my co contributors on that podcast. And that's where we're doing all the mindset stuff. We're really like thinking through all the people, pleasing all the various things that show up that get in people's way and helping people to shift to freedom.


Diana: Yeah, just a tactical way to plug in and get some free advice. Which is so good.


Ben: Yeah, it's a way to hang out with me and Clayton and Paige, who are just, like, in this all day, every day as we riff on things. And you can just be in the room hanging out with us so that you can evolve your mindset. Highly recommended.


Diana: So good. We'll drop all of that in the show notes. Thank you, Ben, for being here. Please, everyone, share. Even though I'm just going to keep giving you crap about not being on the Socials, but tag us anyway. Definitely tag me.

We love to see where you're listening in from. And oh, my God, there were so many nuggets. We would love to hear what actually landed for you. And that's just a great accountability as well, to really start to integrate it like Ben was.


Ben: Also, I'll add one thing to that. If anything didn't land or you had a hard time, you're like, yeah, but what about this? It didn't make sense. It doesn't make sense in this context. Ask those questions and then even if I'm not on social, Diana can help me get a hold of it, and I'm happy to field those as well.


Diana: Awesome. Beautiful.

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